Taking the Whole Baby Home
In light of the continual blogger discussion about circumcision, I just had to stir up some crap with my own post on the issue. So many people are afraid to offend other people on their blogs. Quite frankly, I don’t give a damn. I love mature, adult discussions about the most controversial of issues. So, lets have one. Beware: I will be sharing with you my strong opinions on the issue. I’m totally cool with it if you disagree. Just be nice about it. I have friends who have circumcised. I do not judge them. I do not think they are bad parents. I do not think their children are psychologically ruined for life. While I don’t agree, it was their decision and they can’t change it now anyway. So be it. This is my blog. This is my opinion.
In this video, Penn & Teller explore circumcision.
(Warning: This one made me gag. People do this to their sons. Still. In light of all the research.) This video shows a routine infant circumcision, in case you don’t want to take the time to watch the above.
But you really should.
It’s all about education.
And? The Penn & Teller one is really freaking entertaining.
Except the part where they painfully mutilate the genitals of a newborn baby.
Okay, I guess I gave away my stance on the issue. I think I’ll go with the argument/counter argument method. Please feel free to politely add your own in comments. Again, I don’t care if you agree with me, or if you even have a strong opinion. I just love controversy. (And I’d never cut any part of my baby off without some serious medical reason…arm, leg, penis…get my drift?)
I think it’s akin to female genital mutilation. It’s surgery. Unnecessary surgery at that.
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Watch the second video. Imagine them doing that to your son, while you watch. Imagine them doing the corresponding thing to your daughter, while you watch. ["But I wouldn't watch! I could never watch that!"] Ahem. Point made.
[I want my son to look like his daddy.] (Thirty years ago, this procedure was routine. Many parents weren’t even asked before their sons were stolen away to be mutilated.) (No, I can’t call it “snipped” or “cut.” Those are cutesie words. This is major genital surgery. Not cute. Not snippy snip snip.) My husband’s answer to that one: “I’m pretty sure we won’t be sitting around comparing dicks much. I have lots of great memories with my dad, none of which involve his penis. If he has a problem with his dick not looking like mine, we’ve done something else seriously wrong.”
[They won't remember the pain/They don't feel pain.] They won’t remember if you punch them in the head either. That doesn’t make it right. And to the second point? Um. Bullshit.
[It reduces the risk of AIDS. [insert STD here]] Not if you use a condom. Then it becomes a non-issue. Isn’t this what we should be teaching our kids anyway?
[You can't get penis cancer if you're circumcised. Penis cancer almost always occurs in the foreskin.] You can’t get breast cancer if you don’t have tits. Go cut them off, mmm-kay? While you’re at it, I think nose cancer is getting more common.
[It's easier to keep clean.] No, it’s not. There’s no work to cleaning a baby penis (unless, of course, you hack part of it off, in which case you have to deal with blood, scar tissue, pain…) You just clean it like you clean their fingers and toes. Nothing to it. It will retract anywhere between the ages of 3 and 13, at which time you teach them to clean it. No different than a vagina (there are way more folds in a vagina, actually) and we don’t hack part of them off to make them easier to clean.
[I just don't want him to be made fun of/feel different...] First of all, the kids with part of their dicks chopped off are different. Second, how about we foster self confidence in our kids. And maybe teach them a few snarky comebacks for others who either spend their free time looking at other kids’ penises or are interested enough to keep talking about them. That should do it.
[I'll let my husband make the decision. He's the one with a penis, after all.] You grew this kid. You both had a part in making him. These decisions need to be made together. Look at all side of the issue. Remember, we’re in a different society now than even 20 years ago. The mother’s instinct is to protect her children from pain. Not to pay other people to cause it.
[I prefer the look of it. I want his future partners to like the look of his wang.] First of all, ew. You don’t want to be thinking about your future son’s sex life. Really. You also have no idea what his partner(s) will prefer. If he {and I repeat HE} wants to chop it off in the future, it belongs to him and he can do so. If he likes it the way it is, great. If you mutilate it and he wants it back, he has to go through a hell of a lot to get it back. Again, from my husband’s perspective…”If our kid is obsessed with his dick and is comparing it to others’, we’ve done something wrong.”
[When he's really old he might end up not being able to clean his penis properly and then it will get all smelly and gross.] What about your unclean, smelly and gross vagina when you’re 95? Hopefully someone will clean it for you before it gets that bad, as they hopefully will to his penis if he is unable. However, NOT a reason to cut part of it off. What if he’s healthy and can clean it properly until he leaves the earth? You never know. You wouldn’t cut off all of your daughters’ extra genital skin in preparation for their life in a nursing home, would you?
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So, there you have it. My very biased educated opinion on the issue. I also should tell you that I always thought I would circumcise any of my sons, just because it’s what I was used to and I had fallen prey so the infamous pressure of society. When I was pregnant we read a lot of research (not blogger opinions; actual research) and spoke to many doctors about it and decided we would not do it for all of the above reasons and more. Then, when I held my precious newborn son in my arms I knew we had made the right decision. There was no way I would ever let anyone hurt him, let alone pay them to do it.
Tags: circumcision debate infant baby surgery
Some other opinions you may be interested in:
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January 11th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
I never thought twice about having this procedure done if I ever have a son. I watched some of the video you posted (as much as I could stand) and wept out loud. I can’t imagine doing that to a baby. It’s so vicious.
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January 11th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
These videos are biased and misleading, and do not reflect the reality on this topic. To make a balanced and fair judgment we would need to see an unbiased video, wich does not have as its main goal the misinformation and manipulation of the public.
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January 11th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
FYI, I tried to email Sean (above) for his suggestion of an “unbiased” video to share with you since, as you know, I’m all about the education. He left a fake email address. I debated deleting his comment, since he’s obviously not intelligent or ballsy enough to stand behind anything he says, but I kind of find these guys entertaining so I’ll leave it for your “pleasure.”
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January 11th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Ok, I’ll say it. I LOVE YOU!!! I love that you say what’s on your mind, and to paraphrase you, that’s what personal blogs are all about. Even if I didn’t agree with what you’re saying (which I do), I would respect the intelligence and HUMOR (loads of it) in this post. I feel like doing the MMTAM DANCE!!! Is there one??? You go girl. Well said.
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January 11th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Now I’m crying, I’m laughing so hard. Man, you’re funny.
By the way, I’ve never met any circumcised (yes, that’s circumsized, not uncircumsized) penises up close. How weird and unusual does that make me? Perhaps I should make a t-shirt.
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January 11th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Excellent post. Everything you say is spot-on. The only thing I’d add is to the argument that he’ll need it when he’s old because it will be dirty and get infected. Maybe so, or maybe not, as you point out. Even if it needs to be removed in old age, he’ll enjoy the use of it for the decades leading up to that point.
(Thanks for the link.)
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January 11th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
I love you too Tara ~ thanks for “getting me!”
And, yeah, you should definitely make a t-shirt!
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January 11th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Thanks Tony. That’s a good point.
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January 12th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Crazy post girl. I totally worship the way you presented it all … awesome!
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January 12th, 2007 at 10:01 am
Hilarious. I agree. So funny, and yet so true on so many levels. Right on!
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January 12th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Wow, I had to comment!! good for you on stating your opinion, well done.
My son is circumcised. My hubby wanted that and I was ok with it, after reading about it. I agree, it must have hurt him… but he is ok now. I mean, they give the kid some kind of painkiller/local anesthetic during the procedure… he came back from it just fine.
The only thing I disagree with you on is when you compare it to female genital mutilation… The latter is done so that women don’t experience sexual pleasure. Circumcision doesn’t take away a man’s pleasure. My son seems to be doing ok. I don’t think it has made him less of a person.
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January 12th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Our son was circumcised 14 years ago. At the time, we really thought that we were doing the right thing. Would I do it again? No. Foreskin is supposed to be there. There is no medical reason to have a circumcision. I think that I was lucky. He came back from it okay.
I do have to say, though, that I do know of a few boys (one of them my nephew) who were not circumcised and had to have it done later on. My nephew’s little wee wee was well taken care of, but it still got infected and had to be circed when he was two. A couple of other boys I know had to have it done when they were around 11. At least they were put out… not awake and strapped to a table.
As for the “look of it” … does circumcising make it look better??? I mean, seriously girls … aren’t they all kind of ugly anyway!!!
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January 12th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
You make good points. Jenny makes a valid point as well, that sometimes it has to be done later even if you took care. I am of the opinion (which I don’t think is that disputable) that the younger you are, the quicker you heal from cuts and such things. If an old man was too old to take care of himself properly, to be honest I think he might not survive such a procedure.
I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other, I don’t have kids yet so I’ll have to make a decision at some point (I’ll keep what you’ve said in mind). My Dad was done and he thinks they took too much, my brother wasn’t done, they’re both fine and there was no problem about them being different. So maybe uncirced is the way to go.
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January 12th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Jenny, you said that your nephew was well taken care of but still got infected? How did the doctors advise to care for him? If they said anything but “Clean it like a finger and never, ever retract!!”, they are responsible for that poor boy’s infection and subsequent circumcision. Retraction rips the natural adhesions, causes pain and bleeding, and leaves a ripe spot for infections.
Many American doctors, themselves cut and not current with their knowledge, will advise improper care of a foreskin, both causing infections, and making it appear that a foreskin is way more trouble than it actually is. My boy is almost 3, intact, and never a problem… but if we listened to the doctors, including my father, probably not.
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January 13th, 2007 at 7:29 am
I saw the Penn and Teller when it first aired. Sad that we are such lemmings and do what society dictates. Proud to say, Ian is not circumcised. I respect him as a person to make that decision for himself.
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January 13th, 2007 at 8:01 am
De-lurking, a little late to the party, but none-the-less…
When my son was born, I was ready to rip the arms off of anybody who came into the room to LOOK at him, let alone hack off a bit of his precious, perfect body. I guess I was a wee bit like Mama Bear on lots of Percocet.
While my hormones have returned (sorta) to normal now, I still feel I “did right” by our little guy, in deciding to NOT circumcise him. Interestingly, since then, a girlfriend of mine became pregnant with her first son, and she actually made a point of coming over and “viewing” my son’s penis, as she had never seen an “unscathed version”, and was trying to decide what to do when her baby was born. Apparently, he was not TOO unsightly, as she ultimately decided to leave her son with all the skin he came into this world with – a happily ever after story, no?
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January 13th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Kat,
Male and female genital mutilation are the same, for the reason listed here. Take a look at this list of reasons given to justify FGM in places where it’s practiced. They’ll be familiar, because it’s not always performed to prevent women from sexual pleasure. That is a reason in extreme cases, but if we’re going to outlaw one based on extreme cases, the original justification in the US for male circumcision was to stop boys from “self-abuse”. The fact that we’ve developed less severe excuses doesn’t make it suddenly acceptable. Even if the damage is less severe. There is still damage. That is wrong.
At the same time as male circumcision began in the US (mid-to-late 1800s), doctors used carbolic acid on little girls to cauterize the clitoris in an effort to stop them from “self-abuse”. Fairly quickly doctors gave that up because women were deemed to not enjoy sex enough that taking any pleasure from them would discourage them from seeking to procreate.
I suggest that society still believes boys have “enough” sexual desire so that removing some sensitivity is no big deal, or actually desirable. Even if we don’t directly use that as a justification. It’s not often far behind in reasoning, at least. I’ve heard circumcised men say “if I had any more feeling, I’d never get anything done,” or some variation of that. Why would they assume that? 85% of the world’s men are intact and they’re productive. Maybe the foreskin leads to fewer instances of sex for intact men because they’re fully satisfied when they do have it. No need to constantly seek out something that can no longer happen now that the nerve-packed foreskin is gone. A theory, I admit, but it’s no less crazy than thinking men won’t miss the foreskin.
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January 13th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
The way my sister-in-law and brother took care of my nephew was to bathe him … no pulling back of foreskin. Just a dunk in the water or a wipe with a baby wipe if necessary.
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January 13th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
To Circ Or Not To Circ: That Is The Question…
When my older son was born eleven years ago, I assumed that he’d be circumcised. After all, the friend…
This is a trackback to an article linking this post. Click on the Strollerderby link above to read further.
January 13th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
I had never given this a lot of thought really. I actually really hoped Kayla would be a girl so I wouldn’t have to make this decision (coward’s way out I know!) I also was of the opinion that I would let Joe decide since he was the guy, but again, coward’s way out to not make the decision). After your post and the video I realize I need to be more informed about this and have a serious discussion with Joe, just in case we do ever have a son.
and that video? Wow. I was speechless. I had it on and when the baby started crying Kayla came in to see what was going on. I know Kayla has no concept of what was actually happening to the baby, but the screams coming out of the baby, coupled with the look of horror on my face and my hand clasped to my mouth, did Kayla in. She started crying and backing away from the computer. I had to quickly close that window and go find her. She was in the kitchen looking extremely upset.
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January 13th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Well done! I totally agree with you – it’s just wrong. I myself have used several of the same reasons not to circumcize my son after he was born. I pissed a lot of people off, but my son is happy, healthy, and intact. That’s the only thing that matters to me.
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January 14th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Hmm. I always thought I’d circumcize if I had a boy (not an issue, yet), but your answers to the common arguments have really given me some food for thought. The one about breast cancer really hit me, for some reason.
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January 15th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
If it didn’t function fine with a foreskin, why would it be there? May as well cut out his tonsils and appendix while they’re at it….
I see no reason to do it, although I am not bitter that my parents let it be done to me, nor do I particularly care to have it back!
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January 15th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Thanks for stopping by, Andy. And to your comment – Ha!!
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January 15th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Thanks, everyone, for being so civil about this important and rather controversial topic. Anyone else want to add?
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January 19th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
I am an intact Baby Boomer and the father of daughters. I agree with you. Hundreds of millions of men in nations with decent hygiene and health care go through their lives with no foreskin problems. Yet there is no STD epidemic, or evidence of urological problems.
I admit that there are many areas in the USA where a boy with a foreskin will be stared at in the locker room, and will gross out young women on a first date. That is not a reason to cut, but rather to deplore the state of USA sex education.
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January 22nd, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Uh-oh…
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2007/01/22/circumcision-rate.html
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February 6th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
I am pro-circumcision. As a man I can tell you, I am glad to have had one, and I don’t remember anything about it. (I was very young at the time, you see.) Anyway, just to play devil’s advocate, I’d like to say that men generally aren’t allowed to comment on issues affecting women’s bodies because we simply “don’t understand,” and have no right to tell women what to do with their bodies anyway. I could evoke that in this instance, but I’ll let it slide.
Suffice it to say, I do not feel like a victim, or like I have lost anything. In the US especially, there are compelling social reasons to get circumcized. There are also health issues, as have been noted elsewhere (the recent story about cutting down HIV rates in Africa through circumcision, for starters).
I devoted an entire post to this about a year ago:
http://blogdebogs.blogspot.com/2006/02/and-cut.html
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February 7th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
I never met a woman who preferred it uncut for her sexual experience. In fact, more like the opposite. Just sayin’…
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February 28th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Scott, bullshit. They’re out there. Uncut is natural. Cut looks scarred. I wouldn’t hold it against a guy, but it looks scarred, and feels different too.
Perhaps you’ve never met a woman who preferred it uncut because… you’re cut? Someone’s not going to look at you and say “OMG PART OF YOUR PENIS IS MISSING!” because circumcision is so widely accepted that even if they think that they’re not going to say it. I mean, how impolite can you get? “OMG you’ve been genitally mutilated, I prefer the look of an uncut penis. Sorry, bye.”
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